People v. KFC: My 6-Hour Saga Over A Cheap Bucket Of Chicken

A Shanghai police motorcycle, outside a KFC.

Time for a human interest story, and — you’re forewarned — a long one.

You know that big KFC 50% off coupon fiasco reported on chinaSMACK? Guess what, I was uh, “lucky” to be witness to the madness. Wait wait, the best part is yet to come: I was witness to the madness for over six hours.

Yesterday afternoon, my girlfriend1 messaged me the coupon over GChat asking me to go ask the KFC near me if they will accept the coupon. I patted her head and praised her for a job well done foraging for the evening’s sustenance. However, not yet seeing any possible reason why I should stop what I’m doing to go downstairs and walk to the closest KFC to ask such a simple question, I replied “hell no, woman!” (or something like that) and said we’ll just go to the KFC near her office when I meet her after work. Despite her explanations of some restaurants accepting the coupon while other not, I was in a hurry to get back to plotting to really grasp that full ramifications of what might happen if the coupon was rejected. Worst case scenario, we’d just go dine at some other place, right?

Wrong! After picking her up at her office near XinTianDi, we walked over to the KFC on Huangpi Nan Lu (South Huanpi Road) across from the metro, only to discover that we haven’t been around the area in too long and it had long ago been cleared out for the massive renovations surrounding the metro station to redevelop the area into a high-end shopping district replete with all the requisite luxury brands like Tiffany & Co., Louis Vuitton, etc. Turning around, we walked the opposite direction towards the KFC at the corner of Huai Hai Zhong Lu (Middle Huai Hai Roaad) and Xi Zhang Nan Lu (West Tibet Road), in what was the beginning of the quest for the Colonel’s secret blend of 13 herbs and spices, at a kick-ass price. My girlfriend expected crowds of people, especially as anyone who didn’t get off work at 5:30 usually gets off work at 6:00.

There was already a fairly large crowd inside gathered by the counter when we entered, and it took a while before I realized that the restaurant wasn’t accepting the coupon, largely because everyone was speaking Shanghainese, something that would persist all evening and night with me standing around looking lost and frightened.  Most of the people gathered with girls and women, many being white-collar workers from the nearby area. The store manager, a bespectacled woman that looked completely unsympathetic seemed to be handling everyone quite, well, unsympathetically. Voices were raised.

Manager Tang addressing the disgruntled coupon-holding masses.

Manager Tang, representing KFC corporate.

Soon afterward, a tall and seemingly young man entered the store, hailing as some area manager or another from the corporate offices responsible for several locations. His name was Manager Tang, and he took over trying to turn away the gathering crowd of upset would-be 32 RMB Family Bucket Meal coupon redeemers…and failed spectacularly, though without losing his general cool and patience while sticking to his responsibility to the company, which became something quite a few begrudgingly admired by the end of the night.

Manager Tang quickly posted the official KFC statement that acknowledged the promotion but claimed that the specific 32 RMB Family Bucket Meal coupon everyone had downloaded was fake, and that no KFC restaurant will be accepting them. Compounding the Chinese crowds’ suspicion that KFC was merely regretting the potential losses resulting from their special promotion and now trying to renege on a coupon they had publicly released2, were a variety of explanations seen as unconvincing excuses about how the coupon is fake. For example, it was thrown out that printed or copied coupons were not valid, upon which the crowds held up their coupons and pointed directly to the fine print that said printed or copied coupons are valid3.

It didn’t help that this store, along with other stores, also tried outright lies in hopes of tricking the crowds to disperse without having to deal with the issue head-on, such as telling them to come back later or tomorrow. Hearing such attempts only made the patrons less likely to believe everything else. That the stores were still accepting other coupons that were released with the 32 RMB Family Bucket Meal coupon only led to people decrying why one coupon amongst the set is selectively not being honored4.

A statement by KFC regarding the 32 RMB Family Bucket Meal coupon, taped to the cash register, hanging underneath the exact same Family Bucket Meal deal (at the 66 RMB full price).

KFC's statement regarding the 32 RMB Family Bucket Meal coupon, taped to a register, underneath an advertisement for the same Family Bucket Meal Deal (albeit at the full price). Nonetheless, the irony only adds insult to injury.

At one point, the crowd gave up listening to Manager Tang’s staunch refusal to accept the coupon or provide a reasonable substitute arrangement for the angry but still blameless masses, and decided to collectively try blocking the order counter, preventing incoming customers from ordering. It was effectively a picket line and yes, LoL, I was part of it. As new customers entered, the register staff would cheerfully welcome them with the usual Chinese “欢迎光临!” (huanying guangling), though they were helpless behind a wall of not-so-pleased Chinese customers. Of course, most people coming in were largely bemused by the sight and the girls in the “picket line” quickly explained what was going on, asking for their support — as fellow consumers — by either refraining from dining at KFC or going to the nearby McDonald’s. Few people muscled their way to the counter and most simply chuckled and left, seeing having dinner and offering token support for a bunch of people who seem legitimately upset as being something they could easily combine.

Eventually, KFC sent out some of their staff outside the door to take orders outside and deliver them around the human blockade. Those manning the picket line didn’t stop them nor did they insist on stopping anyone who was set on dining at KFC so, unfortunately5, no picket line violence of the American manufacturing union or anti-abortionist variety. What was clearly evident was that there were little ill-will between the customers and most of the KFC front-line grunts. Both sides empathized with each other, the staff not knowing what they can do, and the unhappy coupon-holders knowing that the staff had jobs to keep and no power to make any decisions. One male employee walked out with a tray of free drinks, only to shirk back into the kitchen when people rejected the drink as if it were to buy them off. Later, though, the staff would give drinks (fruit drink, soda, milk tea with grass jelly, hot coca, etc.) freely to anyone in the standoff, them keeping quiet and letting the manager struggle to find a resolution.

Manager Tang, as aforementioned and again to his credit, didn’t lose his cool, didn’t try to force the people out, and didn’t berate people for their peaceful “demonstration” or “protest”6. When the police arrived around 8:30pm, it was at the request of the crowd, and not KFC or Manager Tang. At first, two motorcycle cops arrived, then two more, and finally a patrol car came. Low-ranking officers then gave way to slightly higher-ranking officers, but ultimately to no avail for either KFC or the disgruntled coupon-holders. The Shanghai police had squandered an opportunity to improve their reputation amongst the civilians, to become heroes of the people by delivering buckets of chicken at the coupon price. Of course, they have no power to do that, and could only write up an incident report, expressing their helplessness to both sides.

Shanghai Police arrive at the scene.

The standoff would occasionally flare, especially each time individuals heard or read online about others getting the deal at other stores. Part me thought the situation would come to a head and something or another would be done as it got later and closer to closing time, since people would have to be vacated before the restaurant staff could go home. I was disabused of that notion when someone reminded me that this particular KFC was open 24-hours. Argh. The crowd did eventually thin out as the night wore on, especially after Manager Tang assented to taking down everyone’s name and numbers, promising that KFC would personally call them with an explanation for just what exactly happened, though how many thought the explanation would be any different is anyone’s guess.

At a bit past 11:00pm, there were only four of us left, two young women, my girlfriend, and myself (ever the loyal dog). Manager Tang sat himself down with us. Though I couldn’t understand all the details that were being exchanged back and forth throughout the night in Shanghainese, I felt the sum of the evidence and information I had up to that moment (both hearsay and from the KFC “statement” that was taped up) was inconclusive. That said, I didn’t think we had much of a chance of prevailing or winning any concessions, but I had been intrigued (and not hungry) enough by the dynamics of everything that had gone on to be just short of becoming impatient enough to stop being supportive of my girlfriend over something she cared about. To be honest, I was thinking about how I’d blog about this entire experience and what I learned from it.

KFC Manager Tang, looking focused.

Looking very focused and intent.

Everyone understandably weary, my girlfriend at this point said that leaving empty-handed would leave everyone unhappy and unresolved, especially after so much and with everyone hungry. Manager Tang had, just moments ago when there were still more people around, offered to give everyone free Chicken burgers as a concession, only to then rescind his offer. One of the other girls agreed and piped up about Manager Tang treating them to McDonald’s. Much to my surprise, he actually and readily agreed. My girlfriend, trying to make the most of the unexpected victory, suggested Xin Wang instead, a nice Cantonese restaurant next to the nearby Babyface nightclub. We got up, and all five of us walked over to the restaurant together. As numb as I was by this point, I wasn’t without a measure of disbelief at the turn of events.

Dinner, at midnight, was decent. Everyone accepted this as some sort of concession towards the remaining hold-outs (of which I was dubiously a member of) who now openly respected Manager Tang for being the good employee to the bitter end.

In retrospect, one thing I noticed was that there was never really any strong emotional antagonism between Manager Tang and the crowd. No one got in each others faces to make things personal. Members of the crowd saw it as their goal to win a concession from a KFC that had inconvenienced them with how the entire promotion unraveled itself in an understandably disagreeable way. As much as both sides disagreed or called each other on what they considered to be unreasonable explanations or arguments, even with raised voices, the participants often tried reasoning with each other, even laughing at each others jokes, especially those joking about the predicament everyone found themselves in.

Manager Tang was friendly and invited everyone to order as they pleased. We have strong reason to believe that the meal was going on the KFC company expense account. Returning to a random aside that was brought up earlier in the night about how old he is, Manager Tang pulled out his Chinese identification card and smugly proved to everyone that he was indeed 38 years old, born 1972. He looks at least ten years younger. Dinner conversation included random other topics, including us asking why they changed the popcorn chicken (it sucks now) and him asking us if we liked the new soy milk KFC now serves (yeah, it was okay). He also asked if we were working for McDonald’s. No joke.

Fin.

The front entrance of the Shanghai KFC on West Tibet Road.

Epilogue: Earlier tonight, around 8:30pm, my girlfriend received a call from a KFC representative. This thoroughly, but pleasantly, surprised me. I cynically did not expect that they would actually follow through on that, and this is a good PR move by any measure. The KFC rep didn’t say anything that wasn’t already known, however, only reiterating that the coupon was fake, that it was made by other people and not released by KFC itself.

My girlfriend responded with what I’ve personally surmised as the general sentiment amongst the many Chinese consumers who are upset over this entire debacle:

  1. There is no way for Chinese consumers to know if KFC is telling the truth or just putting out a dubious explanation to cover for their own mistake(s), leaving the consumers in the wake to just “deal with it”.
  2. As such, they’re not liable to accept KFC’s explanation at face value, and in fact find it upsetting that KFC expects them to without reservation.
  3. And, ultimately, a lot of people feel KFC as a large company could’ve afforded to handle the situation more tactfully, perhaps generously (not her words), itself knowing that the customers didn’t do anything wrong themselves except get excited about KFC.

She acknowledged that the lady on the phone was likely only tasked with communicating her superiors’ side of things to the consumers, but asked that she try communicating these sentiments of the consumers affected to her superiors as well.

Fin.

Wait, maybe not just yet. I originally intended to address some of the obnoxious but altogether expected reactions posted on chinaSMACK, especially since I’m amused by Fauna’s entering the fray when she usually doesn’t make much of a peep. Unfortunately, I think simply telling the story above, choking on the details here and there, is long enough for today. I may write a more specific follow-up later but until then, feel free to sound off.

Update: Stan shared this China Daily article with me just now, about Nanjing KFC’s business seemingly taking a hit following the aftermath of the coupon fiasco above. My girl mentioned earlier today similar reports for some Shanghai locations. Anyone following the Chinese language internet should already have an idea that this is actually a pretty big deal at the moment news-wise. Mmm. Chicken.

Update: Some people — disappointingly foreigners — are latching onto the suggestion that this is obviously a case of Chinese people suffering from the shady Chinese practice of making fake stuff. With some of these people, the suggestion is notable premised on certain stereotypes and prejudices. With others, I feel there’s a rush to wave a confrontational accusatory finger with mere presumption substituting for actual knowledge of how things work and how this entire KFC fiasco unfolded. I don’t expect the casual reader to gather and consider all the facts and details before commenting, but I want to disabuse some people of the idea that the specific coupon in question was “fake” in the sense that some mischievous person Photoshop’ed them and tricked everyone. That, I strongly believe, was not the case. My full comment of what I understand to have happened is below.


  1. Ah, let’s see if anyone takes the bait. []
  2. As with many other places, not all coupons in China are advertised on the company’s official website, but instead released through other channels to benefit certain media partners, etc. This confounds one argument that the coupon is obviously fake because it apparently wasn’t on the official website. []
  3. Many valid online electronic coupons are used by printing them out or, in more fancy cases, sent as a redeemable code to one’s mobile phone. []
  4. If the coupon is indeed fake and not merely mistakenly released by KFC, it is conceivable that the fake coupon was replicated from and attached with valid coupons distributed online. []
  5. Or fortunately, depending on your sense of humor. []
  6. …which I hear wasn’t the case in many KFCs elsewhere in the country. People joke that the Shanghainese are rather wussy, unlike the easy-to-anger and easy-to-throw-blows dongbei ren, and fittingly, the Shanghainese never got physical, only argued. My girlfriend says some people in Beijing eventually just went into the kitchen to grab what they could. Could just be hearsay. []


41 Comments

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  1. Bravo Kai on an entertaining read! Haha. Seriously, I’m almost sad I don’t know of this KFC coupon thing. Otherwise, I would have been part of the madness.

    Your first footnote, what was that all about?!

  2. Joe

    I’m surprised Fauna was so vocal about it. She must have really wanted that bucket lolz

    • LoL, I’m trying my best not to make a joke.

      Likewise, I’m pretty surprised she blasted Rick in China myself. I’m hoping it’s less about fried chicken angst and more about her her starting to comment more as I think she’d offer an interesting perspective. It’d be nice if she was more direct, instead of us trying to interpret her through the posts she puts out.

      Rick was asking for it though. The first guy at least ended his comment with a funny. Fauna’s responses, I think, succinctly put him on the spot to defend what is ultimately an indefensible position, but I’m not even sure if he recognizes what she did. He’s still either still fuming about her being hostile to him or just being indignant (over her being indignant).

      But seriously, it’s hard to be making serious criticisms about other people’s “priorities in life” when you’re reading and commenting on chinaSMACK. In a way, I think Fauna has things in a better perspective than many of us.

      Either that or I’m just attributing genius to mystery.

      • Joe

        I don’t know man but fried chicken can be awfully tempting, I remember there was nearly a riot last year out side of Popeyes during their half-off deal. I was pretty pissed too when I showed up and there was like 100 people in line.

        Serious business yo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pyW6w5B7Aw

        • LoL, my friend in the Bay Area promised to save me a Double Down just in case it goes off the market before I visit in the summer. I’m so looking for to it.

          • lolz

            Quality journalism here, seriously.

            Interesting to read the human dynamics. The manager, though looked like a doofus in a plaid shirt, does seem to have a lot of patience and self control. If he forced people out of the stores I am sure he would of just generated a lot more problems.
            Now I am just waiting for someone who understands Shanghainese to post their actual experiences in the stores. There gotta be tons of laughs there.

          • Not sure about the laughs. Remember, this wasn’t just Shanghai, this happened in major cities around the country. It’s like, the 2010 KFC Bucket-Gate or something.

  3. asdf

    Hey, you guys have the Grilled KFC chicken in china yet? Damn, that stuff’s amazing!

  4. B-real

    I swear if the protest kept me from getting my chicken, there would have been some bloody noses. Ya cheap bastards. All the money most of you shanghainese make and you guys wont except inconsistent explanations for hours at a time. Did you guys eventually eat? I mean you did go to eat to survive. Regardless if the answer were not the same. KFC has its own right not to honor anything and its the right of the customers to go somewhere else.

    Trust me economically KFC probably could not afford it if they let these get the half off deal. KFC is already too expensive, but that is the way it is all over the world. For some reason the Chinese love KFC more than where it came from. That same bucket would have cost us 18 dollars IRC in the states. The Lines are always short in Los Angeles.

    • hm

      KFC’s been having some deals lately. But the last time I ate there…$1 dollar chicken sandwich was so small….

  5. Ladies and Gentlemen, let’s not kid ourselves – there are a lot of bloggers in P.R. China that are exhibiting the same amount of forboding that my parents described in 1967 Detroit, and what I witnessed for myself in 1984 Detroit. Uncertain economic times, the appearances that a series of changes are coming from the powers to be in halls of power, and just a lot of pent up energy looking for an excuse to be released. Whether it is a bad coupon campaign, a raid on a blind pig, or not planning ahead of a major sporting event – no one likes to see what happens when there are too many people causing trouble and not enough police (uniformed or plain clothes) to stop the “troubles” from blowing up into a full scale riot.

  6. Hey, I took the bait. I was expecting some…you know… pictures or something.

  7. And “deal with it” you should. You were cheated. Though, not by KFC, but by the counterfeit coupons created by some dubious online distributors. Everyone got all hyped up over getting their fried chicken dinner on only to find out it wasn’t gonna happen. For a let down like that someone needs to take the blame. On an empty stomach its easier to blame KFC for not supplying their greasy, succulent, and tender chicken wings that you were expecting to gorge on, rather than conclude that maybe you should have questioned the validity of the coupons source before herding your fat asses in ecstasy down to the nearest fried chicken shack.

    • Did you read the China Daily article? About Taobao?

      KFC/Taobao’s Promotion

      This coupon, along with the others (that were accepted), were part of a promotion through Taobao. They were, apparently, supposed to be released at specific times for a limited time, and only those who managed to grab them at those times were supposed to be able to use them. This was KFC’s plan.

      “Fake” or Just Leaked Early?

      It is apparent that the coupons were leaked ahead of time, thus resulting in the confusion and responses given by many KFC store managers telling people that they can’t be used until after 4:00 (the coupons weren’t supposed to be released until that time).

      But leaked coupons aren’t “fake”. They just become “invalid” after KFC declares the promotion canceled or suspended, which is exactly what KFC did in their statement. They suspended the second and third rounds of their intended promotion for which these coupons were part of. They’re calling the coupons “fake” because they don’t consider them valid if they weren’t released at the right time according to their plan.

      So no, at this point, all signs point to these NOT being “fake” coupons in that they were “created” (by Photoshop or whatever) by dubious people. At worse, they are the original legit coupons, but were leaked out early. Whether they were leaked out early by mistake or by dubious internal leaks is uncertain. Either way, KFC is still arguably on the line for controlling their own media/promotion partners.

      KFC Doing Damage Control

      They should be investigating what happened, whether there was a leak internally within KFC or within their media/promotion partner, Taobao. Or whether it was an honest mistake that occurred without any ill-intent but obviously massive consequences. Shutting down or suspending the promotion at the last minute was KFC doing damage control. They didn’t want to be on the line for all of those deals. If they can pin-point the cause of the promotion going awry on Taobao, they could’ve honored the coupon without causing this negative PR incident and try holding Taobao financially accountable for the losses privately. This would’ve gone down better for KFC and the customers, and held the party actually responsible, well, responsible.

      KFC’s Poor Planning

      A critical piece of information in all of this was the fine print that allowed copies of the coupon to be valid. This was, likely, poor planning on KFC’s part when they orchestrated this promotion. They thought the limited time the coupon would be released was enough to limit the promotion. Some people would be at the right place at the right time and get a great deal, and KFC would’ve gotten the happy customers and promotional goals it wanted. But they made copies valid. This means that anyone who legitimately got the coupon at the intended limited promotional release time could give copies to as many people as they want so everyone could share their good fortune.

      Why did KFC make printed and copied coupons valid? Online coupons need to be printed out. But why copies? KFC may have been fine with lucky people sharing the coupon with some people. After all, there’s no difference between a copy and simply printing out multiple copies. They anticipated it and felt that the release of the coupon late in the day naturally would’ve been a sufficient limit to curb how far the coupon would spread.

      They didn’t account for the coupon getting released early and spreading as far as it did, thus suddenly resulting in them being on the line for a lot more buckets of cheap chicken than they anticipated or were willing to foot the bill for.

      Not only was their promotion susceptible to leaks, but the actual coupon itself had no limits built in. The coupons did not feature any unique identifiers, such as sequential numbers, limiting it to single-use only. For example, McDonald’s last summer ran a free McCool promotion that involved people text-messaging a request to a central system that would then text-message back a unique digital coupon redeemable for the free item when shown to McDonald’s stores. Each number could only get one coupon and coupons were invalidated upon redemption. This was smart, controlled, and many people were made very happy. It was a success for McDonald’s.

      KFC probably didn’t think such safeguards were necessary. They didn’t want to bother with having different unique coupons show up on the screen for each person who managed to get one on Taobao. That adds a lot more complexity to the promotion. They instead relied on the specific time of release and limited time of release coupled with anticipated spread. A coupon is easy to make and having the coupon holders print it out is easy. A system of unique coupons is not. But they didn’t see the weak points in their plan until it was too late.

      Things Get Out of Control

      The coupon leaked out, news spread, and a lot of people got the “real” coupon albeit through channels KFC did not intend. However, since KFC did not design the promotion or coupon to be differentiable, they had to shut it all down or pay for all of it. How could they tell which coupons were from Taobao through their intended promotion and which were from unauthorized channels? They couldn’t.

      Whose Fault Is It?

      It isn’t the customers’ fault. They were getting their coupons through channels where they’ve always gotten legit coupons. There was no limiting information on the coupons themselves, and it is unreasonable to expect them to go figure out the coupons were actually part of a KFC/Taobao joint promotion.

      The fault lies on KFC, and possibly Taobao to any degree that Taobao can be shown to have conducted their part of the joint promotion incorrectly or inappropriately. Ultimately, however, this is KFC’s promotion and they’re responsible for covering their own asses, which they failed to do. While I don’t begrudge them for realizing their mistake and trying to then control the damage, they ultimately have to accept the negative PR and customer sentiments this entire fiasco resulted in.

      As far as the customers are concerned, KFC jilted them at the altar. KFC didn’t plan things through, made mistakes, and the customers were left to paying for it with their time and energy.

      • No, I didnt read that article. Mainly because I’m not all that interested in the matter. I mean beyond the amusement by the fact that this is actually getting as much attention as it is.

        If it was KFC’s fault or Taobao… I guess what it really comes down to is: who gives a shit?
        Ultimately one has to wonder, like many have on the chinaSMACK post, why the heck would someone spend several hours pining over this mix-up?

        People were cheated. Wow! Unimaginable, especially here in China where such a thing is unheard of. Actually no, Im sorry, its not even being cheated. At worst it was simply a mean-spirited trick. At best an unfortunate mistake.

        It seems fairly likely to be as you said: a promotion that backfired. But did it take everyone 4 hours to realize that? Or did they realize it sooner but couldnt resist the urge to stand around and bitch?

        • Right, the “well, I don’t give a shit” response. If you didn’t give a shit, then why are you so quick to tell others how they should give a shit?

          You still don’t get it, do you? It is because no one could figure out what had happened that people stood their ground and refused to accept KFC’s explanation. KFC’s statement and reps didn’t do a good job explaining what happened and, arguably, didn’t even try explaining what happened. That’s the PR disaster, trying to turn away customers without getting them to buy into and own the explanation. It’s a PR disaster because after 4 hours, 6 hours, even to now people still aren’t sure what happened except they had coupons in hand that they had gotten through reliable channels with nothing on the coupons themselves to say why they weren’t eligible except the KFC rep who is now suddenly insisting they won’t accept them.

          And the fact that you’re still peddling this being China thus people shouldn’t be surprised is precisely how insulting some people like you and those on chinaSMACK are. Are you so mind-bogglingly arrogant as to think this is something that could only have happened in China, amongst Chinese people? Selective memory much? Prejudice much?

          Couldn’t resist the urge to stand around and bitch? Are you serious?

          • The “Who gives a shit” response is just a reaction to how trivial a matter this whole thing is. Sure people are justified in being upset and frustrated, but not to the degree that these 4-6 hour protestors brought it to.

            Yes I get that people were confused and wanted to find out what was going on. But to what extent are you willing to go to find out what happened to a coupon for a bucket of chicken? Go get something to eat, arent you hungry? Isnt that why youre there? Things got fouled up, move on. Dont dwell for HOURS, wasting your entire night, on such a meager issue (unless your agenda is to blog about it later (and even then you probably shouldnt).

            My last point still stands: How long does it take to grasp what had happened? You cant argue that they didnt give an explanation because its been stated repeatedly that they did, convoluted as it may have been. You even posted a picture of it above.

            Some people who stayed werent happy with the explanation? well tough shit, grow up and learn to accept that you cant always get what you want/expect. And the rest stayed why? because they were hoping to pressure some sort of compensation out of the store? Well, you got it: a free dinner. The manager of KFC took you out to a restaurant and bought you dinner. People should be praising that wretched place for such benevolence.

            As for me “still” peddling anything, please dont let your past debates with other commenters prejudice your opinion of me. Regardless of your perceived sensitivity to the subject, yes China is (though I’ve never claimed it was the only place on the map (that was your erroneous presumption/expectation)) widely known for its swindling.

          • lossofmind,

            1. “If you didn’t give a shit, then why are you so quick to tell others how they should give a shit?”

            2. That you think people were standing off for hours was still over a bucket of chicken shows that you still don’t get it, that you haven’t managed to put yourself in all these peoples’ shoes. It was no longer about a bucket of chicken or 32 RMB for them. It was about how KFC was treating them, how their explanation or lack of explanation insulted them in the business-customer relationship. They felt KFC was not acting in good faith. Surely you have done similar things on matters you felt were “about principles” before, right? You’re human, right? It wasn’t about finding out what happened. It was about demanding that KFC treat them as they expect to be treated, which is not to be lied to, toyed with, or whatever. You really still think it was about chicken?

            3. I think it is abundantly obvious in my post that I totally see the humorous angles to this entire affair. But the reason behind writing about it is what it says about a lot of things, amongst them what I knew to be a divide between those who felt strongly about what happened and those who, well, think it was only about chicken. I’m not sure if I’m going to do a follow-up, but one of the most interesting things is how shared grievances beget crowds and how crowds create ownership over those grievances, solidarity, and then a sort of power for those people. Understanding even this incident with KFC can help you better understand how Tiananmen built up, if you can get past the surface.

            4. Asking how long it takes to grasp what has happened is a stupid question, premised on thinking these people were waiting for an explanation. They weren’t just waiting for an explanation, they were waiting for a resolution that would satisfy them. Even asking “why didn’t they just accept KFC’s statement when it was posted and go home?” is a smarter question. What I find insulting about your reaction is that you’d rather think they WANTED to “stand around and bitch” as opposed to actually thinking of what possible legitimate reasons they might’ve had for standing around. I don’t get it, why do you think that way? Why would you rather think that about these people instead of trying to figure out why they behaved the way they did? What does this say about your presumptions of these people?

            5. Many grown and fully rational, mature people fight for things they don’t expect or want to accept. What do you think all the noise over Google was? Over YouTube being blocked? Over Twitter? Come on, you behave as if you don’t innately understand the concept of being upset and going to bat over something or anything. I can just as easily put down all the people complaining about Facebook being blocked as twats whining about not being able to update their status message for their friends, but to them, access to Facebook is easily a proxy for larger notions of what they expect to have in life. For the Chinese here, it was not being treated as chumps.

            6. Four people at the store I was at got that free dinner. Many others got buckets, or substitute deals. Most went home angry and empty-handed. They’re likely the ones currently boycotting KFC in protest and part of the downturn in daily business KFC is experiencing right now (though we both expect that not to last). If you think any of the four of us think we should be praising KFC, you still don’t get it.

            7. I’m not letting my past debates with other commenters prejudicing my opinion of you. Have I not directly quoted, referenced, or addressed the very words you have typed in my responses to you? Swindling of a certain sophistication is definitely commonplace in China, but I wasn’t denying that, was I? I was pointing out how you were too quick to assume that, and what that may say about your approach to China, the Chinese, and the issues or incidents that matter to them.

            This blog is very much about exactly this, about how we approach these things to understand them.

          • 1. I never wrote “I don’t give a shit”. I asked a question, “Who gives a shit?” As in, who in their right mind would make such a fuss?

            2. It is precisely because I put myself in their shoes that I feel the way I do. If I were there I would have laughed at those people just like the other customers who laughed at them and went someplace else to get dinner. As for the principle, are these peoples lives so devoid of incident that they felt the need to spend 6 hours participating in this petty battle. BTW This sentiment was similarly expressed by one of your authors here over on chinaSMACK. Maybe he can explain it to you better than I.

            3. I never disputed your wit. Its one of the reasons I so often return to this site. For example, comparing the mob rule in this situation to what happened with Tiananmen is pretty damn laughable (or shameful, depending on your point of view).

            4. “They weren’t just waiting for an explanation.” Right, they were waiting for what they felt for themselves was an acceptable explanation and a result that would pacify their offended egos. But for KFC it seems the explanation was the result. The mob just didn’t want to hear it because they didn’t approve. Again, tough titties. They’re lucky they weren’t hauled off by the police for trespassing and disturbance of the peace.
            Why is it offensive for me to assume they WANTED to “stand around and bitch”? Were they forced to do so? You mean they wanted to leave but couldn’t? If they felt they had a legitimate reason for standing around (and bitching) then they obviously made the choice to do so because they wanted to. Just as the people who laughed and left didn’t want to.
            I know why they made this decision. Because they were treated, as you said, like chumps and couldn’t get over it. So they stayed and threw a fit much like a spoiled child who’s toy chicken nugget has been taken away.
            This isn’t a civil rights issue. This is a bucket of chicken issue. The principles involved are not the same.

            5. Again, you are over-aggrandizing the situation. It’s an unbalanced comparison; fighting over chump change chicken wings isn’t the same as fighting for civil rights. Yes, they are both a fight. No, the principles involved do not have the same value.

            6. You keep saying it wasn’t about the Chicken. So let me ask you: did they go home after they got their conciliatory buckets, dinners, and substitute deals? Or did they stand by their principles and continue with their civil rights demonstration?
            Saying KFC should be praised, I thought, was an obvious exaggeration. Those people who simply left and decided to boycott KFC are the ones I feel handled this matter sensibly and are the ones I can identify with.

            7. Your speculation (as you haven’t quoted me about this (because its simply not there)) about me is misleading. Anyone who cares to look can see that I made no such statement as the ones you claimed. And you didnt deny that China is well known for swindles. But you deflected the point with an attack on my character. In debates, more often than not, when people resort to character assassination instead of addressing the actual issue it is because theyve run out of credible/logical support for their side of the argument. My approach to Chinese issues is the same in my approach to any other issue. If my curtness or directness offends some people, I cant help that. For me, just because an issue is “Chinese” doesn’t give it a pass or make it any more special than one that is say, “Western”.

          • lossofmind,

            1. “I guess what it really comes down to is: who gives a shit?” That’s not a question, that’s a statement. At best, a rhetorical question, which is by nature a statement itself. How about this: Do you give a shit?

            2. Where have I failed to acknowledge that different people will see this differently? I know what Custer said, but I also know what he didn’t say that you have.

            3. Mob rule or consumer activism. Mob rule or political activism. Take your pick. As you said, depends on your point of view. Didn’t you say you were putting yourself in other people’s shoes? Doesn’t look like it.

            4. Never sought an explanation or resolution acceptable to you, have you? I find that hard to believe, but keep on swearing it. Again, not putting yourself in their shoes and selective memory. Maybe you should ask WHY the police didn’t haul them off instead of assuming they should have. You’d be a bit closer to the truth that way, if you cared for it. You’re not interested in understanding what happened, are you? You’re only interested in defending your initial judgment of these people, right?

            Why is it offensive? Would you be offended if I said the students and workers at Tiananmen wanted to stand around and be part of the “big party” (in Chinese, “chou re nao”), who knew actually little about the demands that their leadership were asking for, but enjoyed being part of something bigger than themselves for reasons that seemed entirely reasonable and appealing to them? It is offensive not because you don’t care, but because you’re quick to denigrate people for what they value without being able to identify what it is that they’re actually fighting for. This is the same line of thinking that permeates ethnocentrism, the desire to prescribe what one values to others without regard to what others themselves value. You’re not just saying, “wow, this is kinda silly to me”, you’re talking shit. Shall I quote?

            If you think I’m taking issue with you saying “wanted”, you’re mistaken. I’m taking issue with your tone that includes “stand around and bitch”. No shit they have the choice to leave, but you are not stupid enough to not understand that they felt compelled to stand firm and what compelled them was not physical restraint by others but by their own beliefs of what is right, wrong, principle. Never acted on principle before, have you?

            It doesn’t matter what you label this issue as. As evidenced above, and even by yourself, things are as important as people make them out to be. It doesn’t have to be about civil rights or a bucket of chicken, it’s about how you approach what other people care about. It’s one thing to not care for the same things, it’s another thing to go out and berate, put down, and condescend to people for what they care about. You approach this issue as chicken, end of. But you can’t wrap your head around other people seeing this as more and instead of just shrugging, you actually go ahead and insult that which you don’t understand. If you could put yourself in other people’s shoes, you wouldn’t behave this way (or maybe you would?).

            5. They do not have the same value TO YOU and only to YOU in a vacuum. While I don’t agree with some of the obvious extensions whichone alluded to in his comment here, the idea is to understand why this was important enough for these people to act the way they did IN CONTEXT.

            What is the value of you going out on a limb to put down these people in a comment on the internet? Versus the value of commenting about famine epidemics in Africa? You comment because there is a sense of proximity to you, because your ego is likewise offended by my comments in response to you. You’re still here, aren’t you? Why are you standing around and bitching? Why are you coming back to bitch? Because it matters to you, and somewhere, right now, there are tons of people laughing at us both for pettily arguing over the internet. If you can understand and justify your own behavior here, you shouldn’t have a problem understanding the behavior of these customers, at least enough not to mock them as you have and present it as diametrically opposed to what foreigners would do.

            Are you starting to understand Fauna’s “Don’t be stupid” response to Rick in China yet?

            6. What do you think “conciliatory” means, man? You’re also tripping yourself up with your own “civil rights” label. I never said this was about “civil rights”, I said this was about how people feel they are being treated in a consumer-business relationship versus what they expect. Conciliation, compromise, and compensation are all acts seen as admission, acknowledgment, and recognition of a problem and an attempt to resolve it. That’s what these people, at bare minimum, were standing around for. If it was one person, or a handful, it’d be easier for us to dismiss them as outliers, as crazies, but for so many people to be part of this, that it became arguably one of the biggest news items in the Chinese news space, makes it harder for us to dismiss it as such. And the thing is, this happens everywhere. Why are you in a rush to label it as Chinese?

            7. Not there?

            How did I deflect the point with an attack on your character when the whole point of me responding is to criticize certain people’s characters as evidenced by their behavior? Let’s not forget you attacked the character of the people involved in this. When it comes to trying to understand why you felt compelled to do such a thing, it’s going to involve your character. This isn’t about “resorting” to character assassination, this is ABOUT character. What am I resorting to character assassination for? You already acknowledged that you judged without understanding what happened, that your earlier conclusion premised upon the coupons being “fake” were both presumptive and ultimately erroneous. What credible or logical support for explaining what happened am I lacking for me to “resort” to character assassination? No, this was first about explaining what happened, and then second about your reaction, approach to this issue, and thus your character.

            No one suggested anything about you giving a “Chinese” issue a pass or considering it more special than a “Western” one. Where did you get that idea? Do you approach other issues in terms of “Chinese/laowai” dynamics?

          • More and more your argument is becoming about me and my character and less about the issue at hand: people standing around for 6 hours in KFC.
            Using personal attacks to try to turn the direction of the debate is a crafty tactic but ultimately it just takes us away from the point of discussion. So I wont really address them. I never attacked the character of these people. The mentality I poked fun at yes, but I didnt attack anyone’s character.

            If by putting yourself in other peoples shoes you mean I should mentally try to be them in that situation, then no, that’s impossible, but to imagine myself at the scene and think about how I would react, that’s what I’ve done and that’s why I feel the way I do about it.

            This isn’t tiananmen square, you cant even call it “a little tiananmen” mass disturbance type incident. I think we can more appropriately call it “the little chicken wing” incident. There is so much going on in the world and in this country alone, why this? So lets begin to address your question. You tell me the answer: Why did people feel this was such an important issue worth spending hours protesting? But furthermore, why is it that a KFC coupon scandal can arouse a near nationwide sit-in when so many other more serious issues, by comparison, go virtually unchallenged?

            Quoting my wisecracks on chinaSMACK here is pretty silly because anyone who frequents the site knows that what actually goes on there is just people cracking jokes and talking shit. Don’t take what is written there on chinaSMACK so seriously (or do if you want. But I don’t).

            The reason I pop in here when I have spare time and continue with this debate is because I am interested in the conversation we are having and this is what I thought was an appropriate place to have such a conversation. But now you are coming off as bitter and angry that I even bothered to voice my opinion. If you are going to continue to make wild and insulting accusations about me, I am not going to boycott your site or hold a sit-in, I just think it is a poor way to treat your customers eh… readers (not to mention it goes against the china/divide mission statement)

          • Jay (a different one)

            Wow, you two do go on, and on, and on… Funny!
            But like it or not, this (KFC/coupons) is a big issue. If I wasn’t so lazy, not to mention sick of KFC, I might have taken a stand too.
            Depending on who you ask, lists of ‘universal human rights’ prominently feature things like the right to eat. Okay, maybe food and KFC are not the same thing. But assuming as many here do, that KFC is food, then getting a whole bucket full for 33 RMB is hugely important stuff, considering that 33 RMB is a big sum of money (yes, it is). And then finding out that the bucket full of greasy clumps of gooey meat-like substance is going to cost twice as much, which is an even bigger sum of money…. Rip-off! People have rioted for less.
            And standing around for six hours for 33 RMB might sound like sheer folly, but for example, some of my family members stand around for about four-and-a-half hours to make 33 RMB (it is called ‘work’), instead of six hours (college graduates — better pay). Makes a lot more sense than yabbering on on the internet for hours without getting fried chicken for it, doesn’t it?
            Okay, I’ll shut up now.

          • Jay, ;) Cheers. I just consider it rhetoric practice.

        • lossofmind,

          More and more your argument is becoming about me and my character

          Did you read? My argument has always been about your character, about the approach you represent towards this issue. What did you expect after your comments? “And ‘deal with it’ you should”?

          and less about the issue at hand: people standing around for 6 hours in KFC.

          You’re mistaken. That issue was at hand in my first reply to you, where I gave you the benefit of the doubt that a serious examination of what happened might result in you reigning in insulting attitude. I was wrong.

          Read over your comments and you tell me that you’re genuinely interested in what you’re now falling back on as the “issue at hand”. You are less interested in understanding what happened and more interested in casting judgment over a basic human behavior that you yourself are most certainly guilty of. It is that hypocritical “I’m better than you because I’d never do something like that!” attitude that I’ve been responding to. You don’t think that is part of what china/divide is about?

          I never attacked the character of these people. The mentality I poked fun at yes, but I didnt attack anyone’s character.

          Wow, splitting hairs? I’ll bite. Please, argue a substantive colloquial difference between “mentality” and “character”. Would it help if I said I’m not attacking your character but I’m taking issue with your mentality?

          If by putting yourself in other peoples shoes you mean I should mentally try to be them in that situation, then no, that’s impossible

          Where did the word “empathy” come from?

          but to imagine myself at the scene and think about how I would react, that’s what I’ve done and that’s why I feel the way I do about it.

          Which no one fails to understand. How many times now have I said it is one thing for you to not care but it is another for you to berate others for what matters to them? You can either recognize that and be apologetic or unapologetic. Either choice would be very mature of you. Categorically ignoring that and crying character assassination for someone identifying that about your approach to this issue is being intellectually dishonest at best.

          There is so much going on in the world and in this country alone, why this?

          Why not? There is so much going on in the world and in this country alone, why the big stink about anything? Because that’s LIFE, man. Part of being HUMAN is the ability to empathize and respect what matters to other people, whether or not we personally think it is inconsequential. Absent this, we’d live in a pretty fucked up world. Now, no shit, not everyone is going to be able to do this. We’re all limited selfish creatures after all. But the inability to do this is a big part of the “divide” between China and the West, between you and me, between people.

          Again, why is arguing with me of such importance to you? If you can acknowledge why you’re doing what you’re doing, you SHOULD be able to acknowledge why people did what they did in this KFC fiasco. If you can’t, then it very much is about your character, about your mentality, that is the issue between us (you can say it is my character as well, a character that takes issue with your’s).

          So lets begin to address your question. You tell me the answer:

          Asking me to tell you the answer is not you addressing my question.

          Why did people feel this was such an important issue worth spending hours protesting?

          Because they don’t like to be treated like idiots, and because there were clearly many other people who were in the same predicament, giving them a sense of solidarity and potential to exact a more favorable resolution than if they were alone.

          But furthermore, why is it that a KFC coupon scandal can arouse a near nationwide sit-in when so many other more serious issues, by comparison, go virtually unchallenged?

          Because people can make mental calculations about their chances for success. Why is that you are more likely to protest with a group than by yourself? Why are you more likely to sue a company than a government? You are NOT this stupid.

          Quoting my wisecracks on chinaSMACK here is pretty silly because anyone who frequents the site knows that what actually goes on there is just people cracking jokes and talking shit. Don’t take what is written there on chinaSMACK so seriously (or do if you want. But I don’t).

          “You’re not just saying, “wow, this is kinda silly to me”, you’re talking shit.” I rest my case.

          But now you are coming off as bitter and angry that I even bothered to voice my opinion.

          Maybe I am coming off that way to you. Maybe you can acknowledge how you’re coming off to me. Just review your first and subsequent comments. “And ‘deal with it’ you should?” Seriously, what kind of reaction did you expect with that sort of condescension, especially when you didn’t (and apparently still don’t) know what had happened. Way to judge people without knowing them, right?

          If you are going to continue to make wild and insulting accusations about me, I am not going to boycott your site or hold a sit-in, I just think it is a poor way to treat your customers eh… readers

          I personally think I responded to your initial insulting comment to me with a very patient and detailed step-by-step explanation of what happened that stuck closely to the issue you claim you’re still on about. What was your response? “who gives a shit?”

          That communicated to me quite clearly that you don’t give a shit about understanding why this happened in the way it did. It told me that you’re just content to pass judgment.

          (not to mention it goes against the china/divide mission statement)

          “We seek to go beyond knee-jerk stereotypes, nationalism, and prejudice to engage in genuine discussions of contemporary issues, both in our writing and together with our commenters.”

          Please, don’t talk about our mission statement without understanding it. Next, please know that I have absolutely no qualms with alienating readers and commenters who aren’t interested in what we are about. This website is not out to satisfy everyone or tolerate any attitude, and my involvement is definitely not to do that.

          If you want to try morally blackmailing me to our mission-statement, please at least read it first. Using moral blackmail to try to turn the direction of the debate is a crafty tactic but ultimately it just takes us away from the point of discussion: your comments.

          • The discussions direction has already been turned.
            So for the hell of it I’ll go ahead and address the crack I made at chinaSMACK that got you all at pissy. What I wrote:

            “Reported Chinese reaction to this debacle:
            Spend 6 HOURS bitching and wondering.

            Speculated typical foreigner’s reaction:
            Laowai_1: “Wtf, KFC is not honoring its half off cupon!”

            Laowai_2: “Wtf?

            Laowai_1: Oh well, KFC blows dog anyway. Lets go to McDonalds.”

            Laowai_2: “Yeah, there’s to many fucking people here anyway.””

            Now before you get all insecure and fenqing on me, and start crying that Im being borderline ethnocentric, let me ask you: Is this really so inaccurate? How many Chinese people stood around KFC for 6 hours? How many foreigners?

            I’m sure you think I’m unfairly critical of the fools who stood around KFC for 6 hours because they were Chinese and because you were one of them. But that’s just not the case. It is not because they are Chinese that they I am critical of them, it is because they are fools that I am critical.

            When I first posted on this topic I came with my unabashed opinion about how I felt about the matter. Then you basically wrote a follow up post in order to cover for information left out of your article. I basically told you I wasn’t so much interested in the details of the botched promotion as I was in the fact that people stood around KFC “bitching” for 6 hours. At this point, I guess the realization that you were one of those idiots standing around a KFC for 6 hours, and possibly along with my chinaSMACK comment, or for whatever reason, you were sent off into a PMS like frenzy where you became a presumptuous bitch reminiscent of my ex-girlfriend on the rag. At this point you began misquoting me and going off with wild speculation and unsubstantiated presumptions, ultimately becoming what amounts to the childish whine: “I’m not the dummy, you’re the dummy!”

            We might have had a more coherent and useful discussion if you could have avoided letting your bloated ego get in the way of what’s actually being said. If you disagree then might I suggest the following change to your mission statement:

            china/divide features social and political commentary relating to modern China. We seek to go beyond knee-jerk stereotypes, nationalism, and prejudice to engage in genuine discussions of contemporary issues, both in our writing and together with our commenters, however we’ll quickly and proudly compromise these principles and bark with bombastic belligerence and berate our readers in an attempt to put them in their place.

          • lossofmind,

            One moment you’re crying about character assassination and the next moment you’re suggesting I’m becoming “insecure and fenqing”. What was that you said about lacking “credible/logical support” for your side of the argument?

            I’m sorry, my disagreement with you boils down to your personal belief and support that this incident and all the related underlying motivations are somehow uniquely Chinese. I just don’t see it that way and I do think the people who are coming out so forcefully to declare it as such are 1) adding no value to understanding what happened, and 2) betraying their prejudices and need to elevate themselves at the expense of others.

            You’re asking questions you should be smart enough to not ask:

            How many Chinese people stood around KFC for 6 hours? How many foreigners?

            This was a coupon, printed entirely in Chinese and distributed entirely through Chinese promotional media channels in a predominantly Chinese population. What do you think? If this happened with a Russian coupon printed in Russian in Russia, would you say this behavior is “Russian”? Or would you, for the sake of consistency, say the Russians are behaving like Chinese? Are you cluing in yet?

            I’m sure you think I’m unfairly critical of the fools who stood around KFC for 6 hours because they were Chinese and because you were one of them. But that’s just not the case. It is not because they are Chinese that they I am critical of them, it is because they are fools that I am critical.

            A) No, I don’t think you’re being unfairly critical. I think you’re being hypocritical and prejudiced.

            B) Yes, I do think you are doing so because they were Chinese. No, I didn’t think me being there is part of your reason.

            C) If it is about mere foolishness, why the quickness to differentiate between Chinese and foreigners? Why the defense of such a differentiation?

            What this boils down to, now, lossofmind, is your resistance to being effectively called out for your prejudices and labeled with such. That is not how you see yourself but that is how you are coming across to me. This is about your ego, about how you want to control how others see you regardless of your actions and how they interpreted them. You are no different from these people. Sure, different circumstances, but the same underlying emotions and motivations.

            When I first posted on this topic I came with my unabashed opinion about how I felt about the matter. Then you basically wrote a follow up post in order to cover for information left out of your article. I basically told you I wasn’t so much interested in the details of the botched promotion as I was in the fact that people stood around KFC “bitching” for 6 hours.

            No shit, the idea of explaining the botched promotion to you was an effort to disabuse you of the presumptions you based your initial unabashed and ignorant opinion on. I didn’t “realize” you were calling me a fool for being there, I “realized” that you’re an idiot. You were more interested in casting judgment on ethnic/nationality lines than you were in trying to understand what happened. I don’t like people like you. You guys contribute to the rift, distrust, and lack of understanding between Chinese people and foreigners, between China and the rest of the world when this world could do with a lot more mutual understanding, respect, and cooperation. The “I don’t care why, you’re still a fool” attitude is precisely ethnocentrism.

            At this point you began misquoting me and going off with wild speculation and unsubstantiated presumptions,

            Quote me. I quoted you. Be a man and return the favor. Otherwise, you are defining “unsubstantiated”.

            We might have had a more coherent and useful discussion if you could have avoided letting your bloated ego get in the way of what’s actually being said.

            We might have had a more coherent and useful discussion if you didn’t let your ego say “And ‘deal with it’ you should” or “who gives a shit?” and the many other jackass comments that permeates your defense for why you should be allowed to make prejudiced comments about a situation you declare you don’t care to understand.

            If you disagree then might I suggest the following change to your mission statement:

            No need. you just haven’t yet accepted that your behavior and comments didn’t go beyond “knee-jerk stereotypes, nationalism, and prejudice” and hence you’re not owed any genuine discussion (though I’m still giving it to you).

            Everyone has an ego, lossofmind. Including yourself. My ego didn’t like the prejudiced comments you were spewing. Your ego doesn’t like my ego taking issue with it. It is that simple.

  8. “At a bit past 11:00pm, there were only four of us left…”

    Could be worse, Kai. You could be a foreigner in Shanghai:

    http://shanghaiist.com/2010/04/08/shanghai_police_imposing_foreigner.php

    No doubt some will say this is a step in the right direction.

    • What makes you think I’m not a foreigner in Shanghai?

      • A familiar dance, but here goes:

        What makes you think that I think you’re not a foreigner in Shanghai?

        If you are, you’re a naughty boy who broke curfew in the name of fried chicken, a shocking level of disregard for Chinese law.

        • What makes you think that I think you’re not a foreigner in Shanghai?

          Could be worse, Kai. You could be a foreigner in Shanghai:

          I dunno, stuart, by any measure of English communication, stating that I “could” be something represents that you initially think I am “not” that thing. Otherwise, you think I could be something you already think I am? Come on, stuart.

          And you really should’ve read the follow-up comments on that Shanghaiist post.

          • Kai,

            I humbly supplicate myself before the resident grammarian (God, I hope that’s grammatical). Or is this semantics? Whatever – you’re the king.

            I read those comments – I just thought the headline tied in nicely with your midnight chicken run. All in good humour.

          • Excellent, know your role.

      • Stinky Tofu

        Well if you look Chinese then you are Chinese. Isn’t that how it goes here?

  9. King Tubby

    One large frying pan plus a bit of oil…heat. Throw in your chicken pieces. Add veggie salt, cracked pepper, a dash of Wuyishan sesame oil, cajum powder, paprika, chilly powder, cayenne pepper and diced onion towards the end.

    Crikey, to think people get exercised over muck like that.

Continuing the Discussion